Free fisho fish spa at Niu Ze Xui
Mar 13th, 2008 by Neo
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Wow, this is definitely something new which you should try out if you haven’t already done so.
I was at Niu Ze Xui last weekend and was delighted to see many new booths located near the main entrance to this new happening place in Ara Damansara. These booths were setup to cater to the rising number of shoppers who came here during the school break.
Out of the many booths, one particular one caught my attention. It was definitely something new in Malaysia - FISHO fish spa!
What’s FISHO? They simply is one of the few suppliers and providers for this fish spa service. They provide the treatment concept, the supply of Doctor Fish, the education, marketing and business strategy for customers.
So, what’s Doctor Fish? Actually, it’s a type of fish which is named for its ability to produce healthy, glowing results from even the most flaky, dried or diseased epidermis. This is the key ingredient in FISHO treatment and is becoming increasing popular in… not surprisingly, Japan, China, Korea and Singapore.
For this FISHO treatment, we immerse our feet, hands or if the facility allows… our entire body in a warm pool that swarms with hundreds of little Doctor Fish. These fish nibble away the crusty and scabby epidermis to reveal the fresh layer beneath.
I was told this not only removes dead skin cells, it also massages the skin. The massage improves blood circulation, thus the skin is better supplied with oxygen and as the outcome it becomes softer and smoother! You may want to immerse your face into the water too as I am sure you want your face to become softer and smoother more than your feet… haha… forget about the bed smell from other users’ feet! 
So, what are you waiting for? For a limited time only, this fish spa service is completely free for you to try at Niu Ze Xui. I forgot to ask when will they end the free trial period, but I believe it will be until the end of the school break which will be only a few days away from now. Go try before you need to pay. I expect this to become a hit thing in Malaysia soon.
Worry not… fish spa is not painful at all because Doctor Fish have no teeth and will not eat away your feet!
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I came to your booth. The fish you are dealing with is a Tilapia Fish. It is not Garra Rufa and no Therapeuctic effect. It is a disgrace for you to sell these kind of fish to Fish spa and telling them this is Doctor Fish?
aiyo all kinds of witch doctors coming out everywhere! did you feed the fish with your smelly fish onot?
Free at the moment? Good to know. You know lah I have smelly feet. Haha
after reading your post, i went to NZX (near my office) with the intention of trying out the fish spa thingy. But then decided it was too hot, so bought doughnuts instead
Would like to try too!
as i know of, this fish has got the effect, the micro massage and skin exfoliation, so who cares it’s the garra rufa fish or not… and by the way dr fish is just a nickname… they did not claimed it’s garra rufa
i’ve also done some online searches that fishes naturally does not transmit diseases, so as long as the water is filtered and germs are killed, it’s 100% safe… garra rufa was just famous because it nibbles our human skin and are not afraid of humans… well does this dr fish works the same? just think about it!!!
anyway, one more thing that i know of from all my researches and reading from books and online, the actual turkey garra rufa fishes are forbidden from export, thus every fish in the market that claims to be garra rufa are actually fake… as long as it works… you’ve got the DR FISH!!!!
Oink oink!!
I went there last Saturday and the booth was just in the process of setting up! Missed it >.<
ummm,
That’s not my booth and so I have no idea if they are using Tilapia fish or Garra Rufa or not. I was just a visitor to the booth like yourself.
wuching,
My fish was too smelly for those Doctor fish. I scare they all will jump out of the water.
Che-Cheh,
Go try now. Don’t wait, they will start charging very soon. Not cheap I heard.
suanie,
I guess it will be heavenly having donuts while having your feet massaged by the fish.
jam,
Go to the fish spa at Niu Ze Xui.
johnny,
Thank you very much for the research and information.
KiliKulu,
Make a trip there again, they should still be there. This time ready to welcome your feet!
[…] visiting the fish spa booth at Niu Ze Xui, I was a little reluctant to leave because there were so many activities to check out during the […]
johnny
Well, i think you really need to read more and do more researches on Garra Rufa before you telling all the nonsense here. Also, if you do have the money travel to Turkey and find out the reason of Garra Rufa is being used in Fish Spa and not the Chin Chin (Tilapia Fish) which simply claims it can nibble and call it Doctor Fish (use Gold Fish instead, is more colourful and nice). Is the Tilapia Fish being used here has any scientific proof of healing? show us if you have. Otherwise go to http://ecam.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/reprint/nel033v1, a write up by Vienna Medical University and Oxford University about REAL Garra Rufa but not Chin Chin (Tilapia) which is imitated and trained in China. Garra Rufa named Doctor Fish by the industrial experts and professors, but Chin Chin try to steal this name.
Oh Yeah!
For you information
Chin Chin = Tilapia Fish (many people want to make some con money out of fish spa call it Doctor Fish and sometime claim it as Garra Rufa too)
Garra Rufa = Doctor Fish
wayne
Yes, I have been to Turkey and tried this thing long time ago. In regards to the researches that you’ve mentioned they actually have it in Chinese. My friend in China is an enthusiast in this thing and he have shown me this. This is one of the things that I’ve read to convince me too!! He is a guy that is very very reluctant to try things which is not the “REAL THING” or if it does not work.
For your information, he is the son of a very top man in China. In regards to the researches you should know and please think carefully before saying whatever I mentioned is nonsense. Turkey Garra Rufa is over 400 years in history, of course you have all the researches done in most country and languages. This new breed of Dr Fish from China will get it’s name too. You will see!!!
Furthermore, please get your facts right before using it here. The fish you mentioned it’s tilapia fish. Do you know how many types of fish species in the world. This fish is guaranteed not tilapia as my China friend got a fish specialist from France and Sweden just to determined and clarify this.
You will see more and more facts coming soon… It’s normal in any new inventions, creations and new products. Through time everyone will know. Well that’s all for now… Ciao!!!
wayne
Oh yeah!!!
Chin Chin = Dr Fish (Nickname) = New Breed from China = New Invention gaining Popularity
Garra Rufa = Scientific Name = Dr Fish (Nickname) = > 400 yrs history
Well, looking at your write up above, is all about self claiming that Chin Chin can do this and that. Actual fact, it does nothing, but just some training by the Chinese to nibble. And that’s all. You have admitted it.
And all this while, the tilapia = Chin Chin being used here has no therapeutic effect at all. All is just some nibbling sensation not effect. It is already confirmed that your Fish which using now is Tilapia. I never say it alone here. You can always bring your fish to Fisherie Department for better understanding. Before you bring this fish into Malaysia, we’ve done all the understanding about Chin Chin.
I’ve been an expert in this fisherie line for so many years, your tilapia fish can’t lie to the world. Someday, it will definitely surface. Before the day, we all fisherie industrialists wish you could con as much money as you could from the public.
Besides, i would request you to learn more by yourself and not just listening to your friend in China. China can do everything even cloning. Now, they are already doing imitation coz they do not have the technology to clone ORIGINAL GARRA RUFA yet. Imitation always comes with a price. For Fisho, think about it carefully…..
Assalammulaikum to all my dear brothers. I am from Turkey. What is all the commotions of the Garra Rufa fish and all the other fishes used in the fish spa industry. I work for the fisheries department. Garra Rufa fish cannot be exported out of Turkey there is a ban and control of the fish by the our Ministry. So anybody claiming to have imported or using Garra Rufa Fish in actual fact any fish can be cultivated to do this and it will provide the same effect.
In your country in Langkawi there is also catfish which does the same thing. I did some study on FISHO and they never claim they are using Garra Rufa. Brother wayne why are you jumping all over the place all excited that only Garra Rufa can do the job. No, you are wrong any fish cultivated (choosing the right fish is important) can do the same job. I assume you must be in the same business as FISHO and are threatened by their presence. If you are in the business then don’t worry, provide better service and have roadshows, open lots of outlets and don’t just talk and make noise like an empty barrel. Well to FISHO go ahead there is nothing wrong in what you are doing there are so many species of fishes and you have chosen the right species to do the job. Any fish which can do the job is to be called Dr. Fish not just Garra Rufa. Mualaikumsalam.
Wow, what a fantastic show here. I think if there is a smart reader around, they can see that you are having a good show as FISHO. Anyway, i just wish FISHO good luck and all the best with your Tilapia Fish. But i strongly opposed you and your FISHO using Chin Chin to con money. If you want to do fish business use Garra Rufa then. Let me know if you want to have real Garra Rufa, i can sell to you @ RM 38 per piece. In fact i have your Chin Chin fish too, if you want i can sell you @ RM 3 per piece. Take care and Assalamalaikum. Ha Ha…..
Wayne You are not a smart businessman. A businessman will not comment here and then offer products for sale. The reason you cant accept any other fish to be Dr. Fish is that for you are in the so called Garra Rufa fish business and you are threatened by the presence of other species, and for all we know the the Garra Rufa species you claim has to be genetically engineered for there is a ban on the real Garra Rufa from Turkey. So the bottom line is the Garra Rufa you claim to have has to be fake? Note any fish that does the job is Dr Fish not just Garra Rufa.
Any way I don’t understand why you brought the subject of Garra Rufa here for nobody here mentioned or claimed to be using Garra Rufa only you for I guess you want to promote your so called fake Garra Rufa. Wrong way and wrong place.
Hi David
I don’t need you to clarify on my fish is real or not? Most importantly is FISHO playing fire by telling the people Chin Chin = Tilapia can do this and that. Do you actually know how many fish spa in the world with REAL GARRA RUFA fish? I doubt you do not have any clue here. The Chin Chin is all started in China, when a group of Chinese wanted a fish business similar like Turkey so much thinking only MONEY sign, they have trained many types of fishes to nibble. And finally, they found Tilapia, the most easiest breeding fish for the work. However, they are so many cons to use this fish.
First, it is not recognized, anyway, they say no problem, we can claim them as Garra Rufa since not so many people in the world has seen Garra Rufa before what.
Second, Chin Chin = Tilapia Fish can grow very fast, and within 3 - 5 months, the fish can grow as huge as 15 - 20 CM, and they was thinking to get the Fish spa owner to throw away the fish and replace them with smaller one. Why? Because at that size, the teeth of the fish came out and eventually hurts.
Thirdly, here the money comes, the Chinese now affiliate FISHO can continuously supply the fish for the naive Fish Spa owner and make their money.
However, i am confuse here too. Where will all this huge Chin Chin = Tilapia will be going after it is grows? FISHO, would you mind telling us. Don’t tell us you can continuously use it. Anyway, for me, i will definitely know where shall it goes….
Lastly, who says that Garra Rufa of Turkey cannot get out of Turkey? I don’t think you are a businessman indeed. I think you are not able to get it because is too expensive or you might have NO affiliation of getting it. Let’s think. RM 38 for one Garra Rufa or RM 3 for one Chin Chin = Tilapia?
Price always comes with quality. Based on the fact above, is Chin Chin can bring effectiveness in curing? Well, i don’t think so. Due to this, please do not use Chin Chin in spa, only Garra Rufa is allowable in SPA. Probably you can use in amusement park. Or you shall change FISHO-SPA to FISHO-WATER AMUSEMENT PARK. Sounds better isn’t. Then, i won’t condemn you. Coz you are selling a kind of amusement, enjoyment without therapeutic, that’s what Chin Chin is doing. Think about it. It might be a good idea and believe your business may grow even bigger, so many waterpark in the world and they could easily get 100,000 of fish from you to fill their pool, right?
Anyway, why so many names are using here by FISHO, and most of this name has the same kind of language use? Is all the acting here playing the same role as FISHO business? Conning?
First, Johnny, claiming Chin Chin can do this and do that and not just Garra Rufa.
Second, Johnny again, trying to threaten with all the big people from China saying Chin Chin is a good Fish. A wisdom word for me too, “For your information, he is the son of a very top man in China. In regards to the researches you should know and please think carefully before saying whatever I mentioned is nonsense.”
Third, comes Muhamad Salam, this one really makes me laugh. A foolish Turkish man telling FISHO to continue its work to promote Chin Chin, yet Garra Rufa which is so important to his country, is not so much of importance to him. Perhaps, ask the Chinese, tell them Chinese Terracota Army is not as great as Tugu Malaysia. And if you can get a China man support you with this fact, you are a SMART ASS.
Fourth, David comes, and more business sense now, teaching me to con money. Well, i ain’t a businessman. I’m just a fisherman. So, don’t talk business with me. I prefer fact.
Tried this spa thing some time ago and made a lot of researches and reading on this. Just would like to share with you guys here an article i found from the net. Perhaps it could clear up some doubts of anyone around here. Just be calm and do not argue over this issue. We just have to find facts. I’m one of those knowledge seekers.
Well, here’s the article :-
SPA TREND: SOAKING WITH FLESH-EATING CARP
Relax, and let the nibbling begin
Use of ‘doctor fish’ has spread from a Turkish resort to Asian and European spas
MATT MOSSMAN
Special to The Globe and Mail
August 25, 2007
KANGAL, TURKEY — I am standing on the lip of a concrete-walled pool in the middle of Turkey with Yunus, the best English speaker here. Hundreds of dark, finger-sized fish gather in a flickering mass below our feet.
“They know we are here,” Yunus says. “They are hungry.”
We dip our hands into the pool. The fish rush over, twist and contort to get at a piece of skin, then bump and nibble. It feels a bit ticklish, and I cannot keep my hand in for more than a few seconds. Some people immerse themselves from the neck down for hours at a time. They believe these fish have medicinal powers.
The doctor fish of Kangal, members of the carp family, have gone from local myth to a sales product and the subject of Internet testimonials. But you don’t have to believe in wonder cures to try them. The fish are used for simple enjoyment, too, in spas from Ireland to Japan.
Word of fish with healing abilities first spread in 1917. A local shepherd dipped an injured leg in a spring, and fish gathered to eat the damaged skin around the wound, prompting locals to try them out for other maladies. The story has grown in spurts since then. In the 1950s, locals walled off the spring to prevent the fish from escaping.
In 1979 came a five-storey hotel. Five Turkish brothers leased the spring and environs from the government in 1992 and added villas, a playground, restaurant and Internet cafĂ©. The resort, the Balikli Kaplica (Fish Spring), is 15 kilometres from the village of Kangal, at the end of a road snaking through foothills. About 3,000 people a year visit the carp, known as Garra rufa in the science world and called doctor fish or nibble fish by cure seekers. Most who come suffer from psoriasis, a recurring skin condition that causes red blotches topped with silvery flakes. They drink from the spring’s mineral-rich water before breakfast and then feed themselves to the fish, waiting in four large pools, sometimes for four hours a day. While the nibble fish eat away the diseased skin within three weeks, the blotches and flakes typically return within months.
The Balikli Kaplica drew international attention in 1999 when psoriasis patients from Germany came on a buying spree, scooping up fish to take home from several areas in the country. Supply now comes mainly from breeders in Europe and Asia. Prices peaked at roughly $90 a fish in 1999, though they now go for $35 to $70 apiece, said Thomas Gularas, a psoriasis sufferer in Fernblick, Austria. He breeds and sells fish and owns a psoriasis-treatment spa there. There are two other such clinics in Austria, and more in Croatia, Serbia, Germany and Ireland. The European spas usually offer individual bathtubs, each stocked with 150 to 300 carp, which some prefer to the group pools in Turkey.
The fish are a natural fit in spa-mad Japan, where they are used to clean dead skin from feet. There are at least 27,000 natural-spring spas there, many touting esoteric treatments such as facials using bull semen, nightingale droppings or gold leaf. Hakone Kowakien Yunessen, one of Japan’s first spas to feature Garra rufa, also offers soaking pools of coffee, green tea, sake, wine or water with salt imported from the Dead Sea.
At least three other spas in Japan use the fish, as does one in South Korea at Daemyung Resort, near Gyeongju. The fish are also deployed at Underwater World, a Singapore marine theme park that is adding spa capabilities and marketing the Garra rufa as “fish reflexology.”
In China, a company called Chengdu Joyda Amusement Co. claims to have trained its carp in massage therapy.
“People will not feel the slightest pain or discomfort, but a very nice feeling when the joy fish are nibbling their skin and massaging their bodies,” according to the company’s website. The next fish-fuelled idea may come from Canada. London, Ont.’s Radostina Zaharieva, who studied music therapy in her native Bulgaria, wants to combine the fish’s exfoliating abilities with classical music to induce relaxation and lower blood pressure. She is still looking for an investor and import permits.
Turkey’s Balikli Kaplica may have lost its monopoly on doctor fish, but the owners aren’t worried about the competition. The Garra rufa lose their powers outside their native spring, they say.
When we dipped our hands into that spring, Yunus, the son of one of the brothers, explained that the fish know how to check for problem skin while nibbling. A rumour nurtured on the Internet even claims the fish secrete dithranol, a common psoriasis cream invented in Germany in 1916.
Turkish biologists and doctors have debunked all that but say the spa can still be beneficial. It offers a mix of factors that commonly send psoriasis into remission: strong sun, mineral water, clean air and relaxation. As for the fish, they say you would get the same results from a good scrub.
These particular Garra rufa eat dead skin because the spring’s water, at a constant 34 C, is too hot to host enough algae, their staple food. This makes their reproductive systems weak, according to a Turkish biologist’s study. Dead human skin becomes a bonus sustenance. The fish prefer eating psoriasis blotches and flakes because they are easier for their toothless mouths to nibble away. And the extra food comes at the perfect time: Most people visit in summer, when the carp are breeding and need nourishment the most. So the cure-seekers actually help the doctor fish more than the fish help them.
At a time of growing curiosity about alternative therapies, and with the Internet a natural amplifier for all things unusual, the truth has a hard time competing. At the Balikli Kaplica, mentioning the facts causes management to switch from talk of “opening” and “checking” wounds to a reminder that a psoriasis recurrence is likely. Without the plateau sun, mineral water and fresh air, they insist, the nibble fish have no therapeutic value.
The growing number of Garra rufa at Europe’s psoriasis clinics and Asia’s spas suggests the legend lives on. The latest academic study, expected to be completed this year by an Austrian doctor, could provide more clarity. But even a negative finding is unlikely to dispel the myths about the doctor fish of Kangal, swimming proof that a colourful fantasy trumps a boring fact.
The link for this article is:-
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/LAC.20070825.FISH25/TPStory/specialTravel
Good to read your comment. I am just an outsider who comes across this fish spa site and was quite annoyed at the way the to & fro of postings done about the real ‘Dr.Fish’ and the con job. Apparently, someone starts a business which comes as a threat to the other guy, if not why should he sound so agitated. If he thinks his is better, then start a spa of his own with ‘real garra ruffa’. Then he can post comment to invite people to his real fish spa. And that I will call healthy competition and not the way he is trying to run people’s business down!!
Hey Neo,
I was checking out on some information about fish theraphy and happened to read through the comments in this blog. Did you eventually visit any real spa for fish theraphy besides the one in NZX? Anyone else tried?
I actually went to Pavillion a few months back and came across this spa “Kenko” and tried out the fish spa there. Went again a few weeks back and the fishes actually have grown bigger. In Wayne’s message, he did ask where will the Chin Chin go when they grow, how about the garrarufas that grows? If i’m not mistaken Kenko claims to be using garrarufas. How, Who and where do they dispose them?
And because of the strong debate i saw on this blog, i being a “kei po chi” and a spa freak (well i visit spa almost weekly to get myself rejuvenated after a week long of hard work), went to check out a Fisho Spa outlet in Sunway and Sampuoton in Damansara with a few friends just to check out the difference between Chin Chin (if that’s what Fisho uses as it was never mentioned in any of their promotion that they are using garrarufas) and Garrarufas (as claimed by Sampuoton they use original garrarufas). After trying out both spa, me and my friends (probably we are not an expert like Wayne or Johnny or whoever in this business) find that there’s not much difference. Only thing was one of my friends had some itchiness on her leg after Sampuoton but recovered after applying some lotion. We dare not try the full body although it was offered in Sampuoton as we are very ticklish, so we decided that leg is more than enough.
In terms of environment, Kenko and Sampuoton has quite similar feel but Fisho seemed to have adapted to a different concept which is slightly on the modern feel. It seems that Fisho has another branch in Cheras but i’ve not seen that place, wonder if it’s the same as Sunway. Maybe will check it out sometime soon.
It seems that more and more fish spas are being established in Malaysia. For consumers like us, the more the merrier. At least we will have more choices and if they have in more areas, then it will be more convenient. Just like other spa with different style of massage and packages, it’s just heaven for someone who enjoys the relaxation of spa just like me.
Before i end, just being a “kei po chi” again, Johnny, David, and this funny Turkish guy, are you all from Fisho? It seems odd Wayne thinks so cos from what i read, it seems like Johnny is the “China” guy who is claiming to be his friend (seems like he is the so called China friend instead), David seems to be in a fish spa business too but probably not Fisho, and this Turkish guy (i really wonder who you are, you are weird).
In conclusion, i think this fish spa edition in the spa industry has definitely added an extra spa choice for us.
Folks,
I’m another kaypo who has been reading the exchanges in this topic. Just to shed some light into this Doctor Fish saga that has turned slightly ugly by businessmen and fishermen alike.:P
Before I begin, I must stress that I DO NOT belong to any camp, be it Chin Chin or Garra Rufa and I DO NOT profit from speaking out in this manner. I’m just a simple fish lover that chooses fact over fiction:)
I too was initially impressed with the Garra Rufa a few months ago and decided to do a bit of research on this ‘wonder fish’ and realized that the poor critter was over-sensationalized by marketeers out there, out for a quick buck I guess.:)
For the record, Garra Rufas do NOT secrete dithranol! Why? Because dithranol is a synthetic chemical, not organic. So is Garra Rufa organic or synthetic? Go figure!:P
So does that mean that Garra Rufas are useless? No, as they play a part in the healing process of the patients in Kangal by nibbling away the dead skin, exposing the skin tissues beneathe to the sunlight and the nutrients in the SPA water there, just to name a few contributing factors.
So in conclusion, any fish that nibbles at your skin without causing any injury in the process should be considered ‘doctor fishes’, isn’t that true?
The Chin Chins in this aspect, like some of the Garra species will therefore fit the bill. The only concern is, if these guys do indeed grow to an unmanageable size, what is to become of them then? Given a choice as an aquarist, I would rather rear fishes that I have the capacity to keep, and not flush down the toilet the minute they grow too big for my tank!:) So do the Chin Chin have the potential to grow to an enormous size? I really don’t know yet.:P
So will I still get an ‘original’ Garra Rufa? The answer is yes, because it is exotic and rare so I don’t mind keeping one or two in my tank. But to use the Garra Rufas for SPA purposes? The answer is a definite NO! Why bother since it is still so expensive when there are cheaper alternatives out there giving the same effect at the fraction of the price?:P
I know I might ruffle a few feathers here but I bear no malice:) Just sharing my experience in this matter.:)
All these talks and no email address or contact numbers? How to start a business la. Also, just because you use Assalamualaikum, dont expect people to believe you’re Turkish and experts on Dr Fish’s variety.
So please leave your contact information here if you have business intentions & everyone wins.
Also, on the Fisho website, the owner wrote “Yen, “The Fish Doctor”, graduated as a bachelor of fishery science in University Putrajaya Malaysia”. That sentence is grammatically incorrect, and also - I’ve never heard of Universiti Putrajaya Malaysia. However, the cert on the last page shows a KUSTEM logo.
FISHO is clever but they use their cleverness to con. Do you know that DR. Fish cafe in Korea was using Chin Chin initially when they were con by the China Man that they sold them Garra Rufa. Immediately, they changed it to Real Garra Rufa even paying higher when they got to know that the Fish they bought through China (Joyda, Forefront, FISHO) was a con. This act by the China people has caught a big embarrasment of them treating their clients with Chin Chin and not Garra Rufa.
The Japanese Fish Spa does not even want to bother to use Chin Chin even so many attempts this JOYDA approaches them.
In Singapore, there were 2 ponds there. One with real Garra Rufa and the other one with Chin Chin.
A listed (Singapore Stock Exchange) fish company in Singapore is only dealing with original Garra Rufa. They believe that Chin Chin is just useless and their name will be tarnish if they sell this to the fish spa.
I do not want to condemn FISHO but just to advise them if you are saying that you are not dealing with Garra Rufa, then stop all your internet advertisement telling the whole world that you are selling Garra Rufa. Just type “Garra Rufa suppliers Malaysia” and you can see FISHO names listed and written clearly that they are selling Garra Rufa. FISHO says here that they are not dealing with Garra Rufa but Chin Chin. So, presumably, this is already a CON JOB just like the CHINA COMPANY……
For your information of some facts here:
1) The Turkish eventually did say that Garra Rufa only working perfectly in their place due to the water, sunlight and so on.
2) Due to this, Vienna Medical University of Austria with Oxford University has done a researched about this fact. So, they brought some of these Garra Rufa back to their research facility in UK using just normal water. With some additional value treatment, eventually more than 80% of cure rate on these tested psoriasis patients. Conclusion of this research is that the Garra Rufa is playing a very important role of curing these people and not the area of water at Kangal. Check out this white paper @ http://ecam.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/reprint/nel033v1
Since Yen is graduated in UNIVERSITI OF PUTRAJAYA (algae; you say it right, this universiti really does not exist), then send it over to them, with all the professors there to test on this Chin Chin whether can cure psoriasis patients or not. Then, write a white paper about it. After that sell your Chin chin from RM 3 to RM 30. You make another big money isn’t?
I have to agree with Wayne on this one! Why advertise selling Garra Rufas when there is no intention to sell the actual fish in the first place? I personally have encountered a few such ‘Garra Rufa distributors’ on the net. The funny thing is, they only admit to me that they’re selling the Chinese type of fish when I insisted on viewing the fishes before buying from them. I really don’t understand why they have to resort to this as this really waste a lot of time and resources, both from the buyer and seller… it makes me feel like they don’t feel good about selling the alternative fish.
Wayne, you mentioned in your previous entries that Chin Chin = Tilapia and by that do you mean those being sold in markets and restaurants?
This is a serious statement. Do you have any documents that can substantiate that? No offense as I would really like to know:) In Kangal, there are two types of ‘doctor fishes’ and the action of Chin Chins somehow resemble the ’strikers’ whereas the Garra Rufas are the ‘lickers’. Am I right so far? 
Let us presume for a moment that the Chin Chins are a distant cousin of the common and humble Tilapia but do not have the disadvantage of the potential enormous size, then wouldn’t that be great?
Guess it is still too early to know how big these Chin Chins can grow into unless Wayne you’re absolutely sure that it is the same Tilapia sold in markets and restaurants? 
I recently asked a fellow aquarist bro of mine on the subject of Garra Rufa’s claim on being able to produce Dithranol. Thought I’d share some of his insights.
*** Besides, look up the Dithranol entry in Wikipedia and you will find the other name for it, Anthralin. Now, cross reference Anthralin in Google and you will come across this webpage of the National Psoriasis Foundation (USA), which says:
“Anthralin is a synthetic substitute for chrysarobin, found in Goa powder from the bark of the araroba tree of South America. This substance has been used to treat psoriasis for more than 100 years.”
How G. rufa can produce something synthetic is beyond me. ***
Excerpts from the German Wikipedia “Reports, in which by the isolation of a Dithranol haltigen secretion by the fish one reports, are unfounded, since it concerns with Dithranol a synthetically manufactured substance, which is used as medicine in the medicine against Psoriasis. Improbable are also reports, after which when “nibbling” the fish at the human skin saliva is injected into the skin.” — (Admin note: URL removed because the page was inaccessible.)
Arghhh… confused!!!!!!
Hi Folks, here I am again and also another busy body who likes to read blogs and give comments. Looks like there are quite some neutral people who actually give logical comments. As for Yen’s uni. its clearly a spelling error as the only uni. offering the course is Universiti Putra Malaysia (UPM) as I have many Agri. graduate friends from UPM (formerly College of Agriculture). As for this Wayne guy, I have been reading his comments from day 1 and my conclusion is he is either a competitor in the Fishspa business or a guy selling ‘genuine’ Garra Ruffa who is suddenly faced with poor sales as Chin Chin fish is much cheaper (as mentioned by dwit) and found to be doing an excellent job. Like I wrote earlier, Wayne can possibly set up his own ‘Garra Ruffa’ Fish Spa or if he is already in the business, then let us all know where it is so that we can all go and check out its effectiveness as compared to the cheaper variety. Anyway, before I end my comments, out of curiosity, why is Wayne only directing his attacks on Fisho. Maybe this confirms what I said earlier that he is already in the business and finds competition from Fisho too hot to handle!
Read an article in the Straits Times over the weekend, some ‘writer’ ‘writing’ about the recent attractions at the Singapore Flyer which included the Garra Rufas at Kenko Fish SPA. Hmmm….last I heard was those fishes at Kenko are from China….now how in the world did those Turkish fishes end up in China is really beyond me:P
Then I saw a short clip of the treatments at the SPA, those ‘Garra Rufas’ do no look like any of the Garra species at all, let alone Garra Rufa! Hmmmm……….no wonder there is a rampant misrepresentation on the internet by the Doctor Fish marketeers. There is this chinese idiom that is roughly translated as “Hang a goat’s head while selling dogs’ meat”….how apt:P
Think I should start selling my guppies or bettas and then pass them off as Garra Rufas since I’m given the impression that marketeers out there think we consumers’ level of discernment is around the likes of plankton:P
Hey Dwit, I think I also should start breeding more of my ‘river fishes’ to sell to the market. Trouble is, how do I train them to nibble at feet. Looks like the spa fishes are different as they do the job! Hmm, good idea, but if we can’t do it, then why not let people make a living. If the customers are not complaining, why are we so concerned. I still feel only people whose ’same’ business feel threatened that all these brickbrat came about. Afterall the fishes are genuinely nibbling at the dead skin. What do you think, any chance of a fish training program? We can really make a pile in the venture.
Yo abchye,
Actually now that you mentioned it, there is a way to ‘train’ fishes to nibble at you or the pencil you’re about to put into the tank for whatever reason there may be:P A cruel method though…I read in the net that given sufficient lack of food source (about 21 days but please don’t do it coz it is really too cruel:P) and it’s unpredictability, fishes in the aquarium are known to nibble at anything that is introduced into the tank. Incidentally, my SAEs, Rainbow Sharks and guppies do occasionally nibble at my fingers and no I do not torture them:P There are some literature on the Garra Rufas which also mentioned the reason why they would nibble at the people in the SPA pools….scarcity of food!:)
I don’t mind letting others make a living as this is everyone’s right!:) The only thing I ask is for more transparency when it comes to conducting the business. Not a lot to ask for, hor?:P Guess nobody would like to order KFC and keep getting pizza sent to their doors:P I know I wouldn’t! I’ve long given up looking for independant ‘Garra Rufa’ distributors in Singapore as I keep getting Chin Chins instead…sigh….
By the way, just to share another thing. A shop in Singapore is selling the distant cousin of Garra Rufas at close to 1/10th of the price!:) Basically they do the same thing…nibbling but without nibbling a hole in one’s wallet!:P Still trying to ID those fellas….I have about 20 of them now in my tank and the closest resemblance in terms of looks has to be the Garra Ceylonensis.
Come on. Kenko fish is supplied by FISHO (the Chin Chin supplier) and they claim it Garra Rufa like what FISHO does! Businessman or conman?
This is to abchye:
You said:
“Hmm, good idea, but if we can’t do it, then why not let people make a living. If the customers are not complaining, why are we so concerned.”
So, you are telling the whole world that; as a consumer i am stupid, and i will continue to be stupid. FISHO just want to make some money out of it mah! Then, let them make my money lor. I don’t mind if they cheat me….
Is that what you mean? FISHO is practicing unethical business here. In China, people are not knowledgeable to condemn this Chin Chin because they do not know what Garra Rufa is all about, but remember, this is MALAYSIA, more intelligent people that can speak and read ENGLISH. If you are having another comment on their side, you are confirm FISHO personnel and trying to protect yourself. So, Abchye you want to be a smart consumer or a stupid consumer now? Think about it……..
Hey Wayne, the way I look at it, you are the real oppo camp fella to Fisho. Earlier you had been advertising your products for sale (garra @ RM38 and Chin Chin @ RM3). Why? Business not moving since China fishes starts coming in? Anyway, I first came to know of Fish spa only when I first visited Pavilion. Did not even get nibbled though I had already read about these Turkey fishes many years back. My only fish business is my ‘river fishes’ in my backyard and some guppies in my fountain. Only hope (suggested to Dwit) is to find a fish trainer to train our fish to nibble, then we will have Malaysian ‘Cium Cium’ and sold at 50sen only! Why do you think I am FISHO personnel when I do not direct any attacks on anybody, just putting my 2 sen worth of comments! That also worth nothing now with 1 sen coins out of circulation. From what I know, there are more Fish spas other than FISHO and you are only directing your criticisms at the latter which appears suspicious to me that you really have an agenda. May be you are from a rival camp to Fisho’s. Anyway, its good to see the development of this present craze for fish spa and how big its going to spread with or without yours or mine comments. As far as I am concern, this is free enterprise which do not need your socalled moral inputs (if any at all). Hope one day to see a new ‘Wayne Genuine Turkish Garra Ruffa Fish Spa’ in the Klang Valley for all to enjoy. ‘Cos if you are genuinely concern, I challenge you to put your real Garra in the market. Talking about con, I was really conned when I bought a pack of cockroach trap but it doesn’t work at all, contrary to what it was claimed on the box. If the first trap works and subsequently doesn’t then its OK as the cockroach might have grown smarter, but not even one miserable roach from day one and my kitchen is still crawling with them! Cheers to the cockroach men.
Wayne,
I think abchye and some of the others in this forum are trying to have a healthy discussion here. Why are you so agressively shooting arrows at them? I won’t blame them for thinking that you have a agenda for being so touchy on this subject you know!:) Abchye is right to suggest that you open up the Garra Rufa market and in the process make it more affordable for aquarist and SPA consumers to enjoy your genuine Garra Rafas! I too agree it is a bit underhanded for the Chinese suppliers to lie about their fishes’ identity but not to the point of blowing my top!:)
For the record, the Garra species that a shop in Singapore is selling now, behaves exactly like the Garra Rufa and like the Garra Rufas, DO NOT secrete dithranol nor inject saliva into the skin during ‘treatment’. So what is the main difference? The price of $1.50 each I guess:P
abchye - what river fishes are you keeping ah? Quite curious to know!:)
If you happen to be in Singapore and wanna get a couple of cheap ‘doctor fishes’, lemme know. I will personally bring you there and no I am not affiliated to the shop nor do I get any commission from them!:P
Cheers!
DWIT
Here i am again !
Wait, wait, wait. Do i smell something fishy here about Wayne!!!
I think abchye has a very very valid point. From Wayne’s answer and attacks on everyone that tries to give their comment, he will conclude that this person is a Fisho personnel. I can bet my last dollar that he OWNS a fish spa!!! on an opposite camp as mentioned by abchye. And if it’s not Kenko or Fisho, so which other spa would he be from???.
I went through all the forums above and found one interesting fact. Wayne claimed that he is not a businessman, he’s only a fisherman. If so, why is he being so persistent?
If Wayne claim that consumers are stupid, then i will be one of the stupid fools too? hhhhmmmmmm !!!, that comment actually made me very furious. That is because i did enjoy the fish spa sessions that i have been to. Wayne, i hope your intention is not to kill the fish spa business in this country. Give people like us a chance to enjoy what we enjoy . . . or you want us to enjoy it in “your spa”? Maybe that will be a good idea to make stupid consumers like me smarter (smart in what? fishes? not my interest, I just want to enjoy the spa for crying out loud).
To people who supports fish spa, cheers to all and hope you will continue your support whether it’s to Kenko, Sampuoton, Fisho, or whatever.
Sorry abchye and dwit, i can’t seem to join your conversation because i know nothing about fishes. But cheers to you guys too, at least there’s some people out there who are not as negative as Wayne. And i’ll continue to read your comments, it’s been interesting.
Ciao !
Thanks Stephanie for your comments!:) Makes the risk of being labeled as a stupid fool worth the while (although I am also a bit disturbed by that outburst)!:P Hehehehe…
On a serious note, my personal take is that most of us go to such SPAs for the experience, and not to cure some skin problems that even the Garra Rufas are ONLY rumoured to be the sole contributing factor in the healing process!:) Now since most of the doctor fishes in the market can do the skin exfoliation by nibbling at our dead skin (Fisho & Wayne SPA included:P), what is the big fuss unless the heat from the competition proves to be too much for some….then the logical solution would be to match the pricing of the new entrants, isn’t it?:) Yeah I know it is hard to let go of the golden goose (38RM per fish the size of my last finger my goodness!)but hey…people are going for low cholestrol eggs now!:P
My only concern is the potential size of the fishes used by Fisho. As nobody has any proof that they are the same tilapia sold in markets and restaurants, just have to give them the benefit of the doubt for now:) It would be a nightmare should one day these critters become too big for the SPAs and then what next? Sell them to the restaurants?:P Again this is just a hypothesis:)
seems like this fish spa is becoming a trend, LOL. whether it works or not is a different thing all together but it’s definitely worth the experience
call the Turkish Embassy 603 42572225 and ask to speak to the Commercial Councilor and they will advice you on the Garra Rufa Fish. : ).
If i am quiet then everything just get peaceful here. If i say something, then all the big bang seems like from many people and many parties. Apparently, all of you from FISHO. Take care guys. The more all of you say something, the more people will feel that you are all one big group of cons. Don’t over protective of your fish. If you think Chin Chin is a good fish for this fish spa, then just let me bullshit here. Why every character here trying so hard to defend Chin Chin?
In a corporate world, defending means you are not doing well or not able to provide expectation. Or for FISHO, defending means they have something FISHY-FISHO. Ha Ha.
I have copied the whole conversation here and to be send to all publications in the world. They will justify if FISHO is doing the right thing. Take care…..
Oh Yeah! By the way, Thank you for all the comments and the truth you have revealed here. I think the world like to see this article so much. Again Thanks to all FISHO personnel for contributing all this information to the world concerns society and Garra Rufa business. Take care…..
Hey Wayne
Don’t do that. You will kill FISHO business and that will not be beneficial to you too.
Wayne,
I think you’re being over defensive here. In what way are we ‘defending’ Fisho? You seem to be the one firing shots all over the place and what do you achieve from that? Respect?:)
You say you are just a fisherman who don’t talk business and yet in your own Garra Rufa website, you’re selling them by the hundreds! Not only that, you’re already making allegations that your competitors’ fishes bite the skin and flesh (an interesting ‘fact’ that I’ve yet to see on major newspapers)! I’m still waiting for the ‘proof’ that the Chin Chins are the common Tilapias and yet received nothing from the source of the accusations. Did we shoot you down for that? No, instead we asked you to push for the Garra Rufa SPA business in Malaysia. Would a Fishho ‘personnel’ do that?
For the true fishermen out there, do visit Aquaticquotient.com to have healthier discussions on aquatic fauna and flora!:)
Ciao!
And since you’re planning on sending this thread to the world, please DO NOT forget to send the diary from your OWN website too.:)
http://www.mygarrarufa.com/
This will be an interesting development.:)
For once you’re helping Fisho by shooting your own foot…..
Hmmmm…I can never understand business strategies….too wierd for me to comprehend…:P
Wow! I visited a fish spa recently and was intrigue by what the owner said so I did a little research and came across your forum. I didn’t realise it was such a hot topic (maybe not that hot anymore as the last entry was a week ago).
The owner of the spa that i visited said that his spa uses original garra rufa fishes while there are others in KL who claim to use them but are actually using Chin Chin. I was shocked as I thought that all these fishes were the same. I don’t think it’s ethical to claim that you are using a certain fish when you are clearly using otherwise. He even has two aquariums at his reception to feature both the fishes allowing customers to see and try the difference.
He showed me that it is very easy to differentiate Garra Rufas from Chin Chins. Garra Rufas are bottom feeders with their mouth positioned at the bottom, just like your typical mudsucker fish. Chin Chins’ mouths are straight and grow much bigger than the Garra Rufas. Larger Chin Chins have teeth, unlike the Garra Rufas and are useless to fish spas once they grow big. Bigger Garra Rufas on the other hand are prized for treatment of patients with skin problems.
He told me that garra rufas exude dithranol enzyme which helps with skin problems (but info from the internet says otherwise? I couldn’t find concrete evidence of this) & medical research has been done by the Medical University of Vienna while nothing has been done on the Chin Chins.
I haven’t visited Kenko but if they are indeed using Chin Chins and not garra rufas as claimed, the public should be made aware of this so that they can make an informed decision.
Just my two cents worth.
Now Kenko in Mid Valley also have a Garra Ruffa . Its in the front pool can view from outside. They have just one tank of it . I went in and tried them they were very inactive or in other words very lazy. The other thanks they have the other fish called Dr.Fish which was really active. There were a few customers there at that time and they were all dipping their feet in the Dr.Fish pool and not the Garra Rufa pool. Any way I tried the Garra Ruffa then tried the Dr.Fish and to me the Dr.Fish is more effective and aggressive. Again am no expert. Just doing my research by experiencing and checking out and asking around. Well done Kenko to provide both so that customers can decide which they like. Hats off to Kenko for they still charge the same rates. RM38.00 for 1/2 an hour regardless of which pool you dip your feet in. They also to stay longer more then 1/2 hr at no extra charge, I stayed an extra 15min.
Wah Garra Rufa can go so big one meh? up to 24 cm and life span to 7 years. What are they going to do with with the Garra Rufa after that? masak lemak chili api for the Garra Rufa ( Look like cat fish or Ikan Keli ) and goreng the Tilipia Dr. Fish. How ah?
Hi Jo,
In response to your question on the Dithranol secretion, it is quite a far fetched claim as Dithranol is a synthetic compound, not organic so how can Garra Rufas (themselves organic) produce synthetic material? It will be against nature, isn’t it?:) Great to know another truth seeker!:)
From what is written in the net about the Doctor Fishes of Kangal, Turkey, there are actually two types of fishes working on the patients in the SPA. The Garra Rufas( lickers) and the Cyprinion macrostomus (strikers) co-exist in the waters of the SPA and compete for food which is scarce due to the temperature of the water and the chemical content in the water.:)
To David,
The Chin Chin (or so called Doctor Fish, pretty misleading name I must say:P) experience would most likely resemble the Cyprinion macrostomus while the Garra Rufas work at ‘licking’ the dead skin cells of one’s body?:) This is just a wild guess of mine:P
I bought a couple of ‘real’ Garra Rufas lately to see if there is any difference from the cheaper cousin of theirs, which are also from the Garra family and realised that they are the same, nibble-wise!:P They will only nibble at you when food is scarce and unpredictable though, like my guppies.:P The only difference is, my garra rufas costed me 10 times the price of their cheaper cousins’ !:P
Still can’t find any research data on the Chin Chins, as though it is not a new found species of fish. Perhaps it is true that they might be the common tilapias found in restaurants?? Anyway, it is still a wild guess of mine!:P
Prob if I have time for another tank, I might experiment with the Chin Chins to see how big and ‘ferocious’ they can become and clear up the air once and for all!:P Til then!
Ciao!
Haiyo DWIT, you again. I know you like Garra Rufa. Garra Rufa like BMW lo not everybody can afford la so we who cant afford BMW (Garra Rufa ) we use Proton la (Ching Ching from China la )
lucky you very very clever go many many study about fish thing you know la.
In actual fact once out of the Hot Spring enviroment weather its the Garra Rufa (BMW) or the Ching Ghing from China (Proton ) all produce the same result.
If we do a research by putting the Ching Ching Fish from China In the Hot Spring they will also produce the same result. : ).
Why for the fishes only remove the dead skin and its the minerals in the Hot spring that do the others.
Wah Those using the Garra Rufa`s in the spas got add the minerals from the hot spring meh to give the results. If yes then what makes them think that those using the Ching Ching China fish not doing the same . So the result same mah. I no need to go school study tinggi also no need to think can figure it out. Lucky din waste my dads money go to college to figure this out.
Now they will say this fish ching ching from china is tilapia la, can go big la etc etc. So what
Do they go big yes they do. Do they go so big that it will be ready to be fried and served to DWIT. He DWIT say one . Any way the fishes die before they reach that stage for your information. : )
Cheers and interesting. bring them on
For all the fish spa locations in Malaysia please do visit http://fishomalaysia.blogspot.com
David…aiyo….where did you get the impression that I’m rooting for Garra Rufas? I’m not Wayne you know! hehehe:P
I’m just a fish lover who favours fact over fiction. For your info, I own more of those ‘protons’ (another garra species) than the ‘bmws’. I keep only two ‘bmws’ to study them and you’re right, once they’re out of the springs of Turkey, they’re not that special:) It does not take a college brain to figure that out but it takes a human heart to appreciate the fact that neglecting pets just because they don’t serve our purposes anymore is inhumane.:)
I don’t have anything to ‘bring it on’ ….just hope you guys know what you’re doing..that’s all.
If helping people make the right purchasing decision by sharing my mini-research into the area is construed as “lucky you very very clever go many many study about fish thing you know la”, well…….I rest my case….
I don’t have any agenda by discussing my views here as I don’t sell fishes. So if I’ve offended anyone by being too blunt, my apologies. This will be my final entry anyway.:)
Take care everyone!:)
Hi Jo,
which spa did you visit? would like to go there to have a look and find out what’s the different between the two fishes (since both are there for comparison)…
i did went to Kenko few months back. i have no idea what kind of fish they are using. therapeutic purpose? ermm…well, no idea. fun and worthwhile experience..yeah!
visited some fish spa named som pu ton fish spa… the fish there sucks big time and i had to pay rm 200+ for some stupid package..which i felt dam conned since some people claim the garra ruffa is the real deal ….their so called garra ruffa is no where compared to the dr fish i tried in the shopping complex….i shall call Garra rufa = lazy fish… lol
Hi Everyone,
I think its important that Fisho makes it clear about what type of fish they use. Because when it comes to fish spa & therapy, people naturally assume that its those type from Turkey (Garra Rufa), popular for the belief that they are able to soothe the symptoms of dermatitis. So if Fisho doesnt correct this assumption, they are not being honest with the customers. What about those customers with skin problems who go to the spas expecting the therapeutic effect (ie. in Turkey)?? If Fisho advertise their spas as…. ‘fish spas for fun and amusement, zero therapeutic effect’, then I guess its not important what kind of fish they are using. BUT PLEASE, straighten this matter!
Unfortunately, I went to one of the Fisho spas and the lady claimed that ‘its good for skin problems’.
Know your Fish Or Not!!
For those who are interested in keeping Garra Rufa or starting a fish spa, it would be wise for you to educate yourself on which is the real Garra Rufa. Many are still confused with the large number of fishes in the market and even experts are sometimes conned into buying fakes! If you want the “REAL” DR FISH then there is only “ONE” genuine DR FISH and thats GARRA RUFA! Many people are passing the other species of Garras as Garra Rufa, so you may ask, how do I differentiate them? well click this link and find out
http://www.loaches.com/species-index/pictorial-species-search-index/garra-species
For those of you who think “Chin Chin” is the Dr Fish, I suggest that you need glasses!!
Recently i went to a fish spa at Sunway Mentari named Fisho. Surprisingly, i saw the fish there similar to Kenko at Pavilion. Is this the Chin Chin fish mentioned here? If that so, i am truly disappointed. Why would you use this fake fish? It makes no sense why this fish is being used in fish spa? Confused and condemned.